From sax at soundingrocket.com Wed Jan 29 22:56:12 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:28:18 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to measure angles. (Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) I also noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical flight. Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking stations and the launch pad. I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think of this idea. One of these days, I'll measure some distances out from the launch pad area. I'll then place a barely perceptable mark on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. We're pretty consistent with where the pad is set up. When the kids come to track the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. What do you all think of this idea? Has someone already done this? --Greg From sax at soundingrocket.com Wed Jan 29 23:17:24 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:28:18 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to measure angles. (Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) I also noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical flight. Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking stations and the launch pad. I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think of this idea. One of these days, I'll measure some distances out from the launch pad area. I'll then place a barely perceptable mark on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. We're pretty consistent with where the pad is set up. When the kids come to track the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. What do you all think of this idea? Has someone already done this? --Greg From slcdmw01 at netscape.net Thu Jan 30 14:02:26 2003 From: slcdmw01 at netscape.net (Dan Wright) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:28:18 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <00DE9FBB.3A776E89.00A8C59F@netscape.net> I like the idea. Rather than permanent but "barely perceptible" marks, I think kids are more likely to actually use them if the marks are big and obvious (traffic cones, for example) placed temporarily. A person on the PA system could bring people's attention to the cones and state their distances. We could have two cones 90 degrees apart (as seen from the point-of-view of the rack). A couple guys manning a 100-foot tape could set out these cones quickly enough each time. Another fast accurate method of measuring distances is to count revolutions of a bicycle tire. Gregory Wong wrote: >Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some >kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to >measure angles. ?(Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) ?I also >noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. >Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical >flight. ?Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking >stations and the launch pad. > >I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think >of this idea. ?One of these days, I'll measure some distances out >from the launch pad area. ?I'll then place a barely perceptable mark >on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. ?We're pretty >consistent with where the pad is set up. ?When the kids come to track >the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their >tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. > >What do you all think of this idea? ?Has someone already done this? > >--Greg __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From sax at soundingrocket.com Thu Jan 30 11:38:33 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:28:18 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: <00DE9FBB.3A776E89.00A8C59F@netscape.net> Message-ID: I noticed that there are some "measuring wheels" for sale on eBay. These are the devices you roll on the ground and read the distance off an odometer looking readout. They aren't too expensive. I'd be willing to buy one and bring it to the BayNAR and LUNAR launches. During setup, I could measure out a few spots and mark them with a traffic cone. For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made given that there are several low power racks at the park. Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. --Greg From Steven.Sawyer at gene.GE.com Thu Jan 30 11:41:18 2003 From: Steven.Sawyer at gene.GE.com (Sawyer, Steven D. (PS, NE)) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:28:18 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <97E769FBF0B6D21197B40008C70D9078051A74A5@casjcx05nege.ne.ge.com> Another alternative is an old-fashioned telephone or intercom. As a spool of wire of a pre-measured length is unwound, the length is automatically made with the intercom connected to each end. For a 2-angle calculation, this quick communication between trackers is imperative to allow altitude calculation. Steve > ---------- > From: Gregory Wong[SMTP:sax@soundingrocket.com] > Reply To: ba-rockets@markspace.vps.fluidhosting.com > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:38 AM > To: ba-rockets@markspace.vps.fluidhosting.com > Subject: RE: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza > > I noticed that there are some "measuring wheels" for sale on eBay. > These are the devices you roll on the ground and read the distance > off an odometer looking readout. They aren't too expensive. I'd > be willing to buy one and bring it to the BayNAR and LUNAR launches. > During setup, I could measure out a few spots and mark them with > a traffic cone. For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made > given that there are several low power racks at the park. Perhaps I could > measure from a central spot among the pads. > > --Greg > > > -- > From ba-rockets. > Visit our home page at http://www.baynar.org > To change your subscription, visit http://www.markspace.com/lists.html > From jhagerty at juno.com Thu Jan 30 21:04:40 2003 From: jhagerty at juno.com (Jack Hagerty) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:28:18 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <20030130.215627.-505149.4.jhagerty@juno.com> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:38:33 -0800 (PST) Gregory Wong writes: > For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made > given that there are several low power racks at the park. > Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. Not necessary. When you use two station tracking, the location of the pads isn't important. Since the second tracker gives you side-to-side information too, the altitude is calculated from the rocket directly to the ground below it, not to the launch pad. I would certainly like to give our gorgeous trackers more use than the once a year (if that!) that they get now. - Jack Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com) ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168 Phone/fax (925) 455-1143 From kriks at pacbell.net Thu Jan 30 22:22:33 2003 From: kriks at pacbell.net (Martin Krikorian) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:28:18 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: <20030130.215627.-505149.4.jhagerty@juno.com> Message-ID: <622BAD72-34E4-11D7-901C-00306546CE7A@pacbell.net> For communication, I can donate some 900 mHz radios, with modems built in, if anyone is interested in figuring out how to use them. They run on 12VDC, and can send tracking readings via a terminal program on a laptop, as well as having a voice handset. Any takers? On Thursday, January 30, 2003, at 09:04 PM, Jack Hagerty wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:38:33 -0800 (PST) Gregory Wong > writes: >> For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made >> given that there are several low power racks at the park. >> Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. > > Not necessary. When you use two station tracking, the location of the > pads isn't important. Since the second tracker gives you side-to-side > information too, the altitude is calculated from the rocket directly to > the ground below it, not to the launch pad. > > I would certainly like to give our gorgeous trackers more use than the > once a year (if that!) that they get now. > > - Jack > > Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com) > ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168 > Phone/fax (925) 455-1143 > -- >> From ba-rockets. > Visit our home page at http://www.baynar.org > To change your subscription, visit http://www.markspace.com/lists.html > From billw at cisco.com Thu Jan 30 22:58:30 2003 From: billw at cisco.com (William Chops Westfield) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:28:18 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:04:40 -0800 -VTY lines stuck in idle state Message-ID: You know, if "the kids" are doing altitude tracking just to find out how high their rockets are going, setting them up with two tracking positions and theodilites or eqivilent, and software to do the analysis, is a fine thing. But if someone is hoping that they'll pick up a little of the math and trig involved, I think they'd be a lot better off sticking with single station tracking (and a known basline is still a good idea. Both the LUNAR and BAYNAR sites have lovely [sic] fixed fixtures like curbs and lampposts. I don't think we need to mark up the pavement at all. All we need is reasonably accurate measurements from a couple of easilly identifiable locations ("this lampost", "this square of sidewalk", "this storm drain") to each possible pad... The distances won't be nice round numbers, but that doesn't matter, does it? BillW From kriks at pacbell.net Thu Jan 30 23:11:24 2003 From: kriks at pacbell.net (Martin Krikorian) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:28:18 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] January launch report Message-ID: <3569D002-34EB-11D7-901C-00306546CE7A@pacbell.net> The January launch was just about perfect - nice weather, and not too busy, but busy enough to keep flying for four hours. Thanks to Tom McLachlan, who hauled the equipment and helped with set-up and teardown. Thanks also to Alan Tran, Dan Wright and Jay Dean, who put in shifts as LCO and RSO, as well as to everyone who helped us pack up at the end of the day. Dan Wright was the winner of the boost glider in our volunteer raffle. The January launches went as follows: 3 - 1/4 A 2 - 1/2 A 23 - A 36 - B 34 - C 8 - D 3 - E 1 - 3 B Cluster 1 - A1/2A 2 stage 2 - BA 2 stage 2 - BB 2 stage 114 launches Not quite a J motor. On the expenses front, we have been helped out by an anonymous donor who pitched in five twenties at the last launch! -Marty Krikorian From sax at soundingrocket.com Wed Jan 29 22:56:12 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Fri Mar 19 09:51:13 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to measure angles. (Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) I also noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical flight. Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking stations and the launch pad. I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think of this idea. One of these days, I'll measure some distances out from the launch pad area. I'll then place a barely perceptable mark on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. We're pretty consistent with where the pad is set up. When the kids come to track the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. What do you all think of this idea? Has someone already done this? --Greg From sax at soundingrocket.com Wed Jan 29 23:17:24 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Fri Mar 19 09:51:13 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to measure angles. (Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) I also noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical flight. Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking stations and the launch pad. I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think of this idea. One of these days, I'll measure some distances out from the launch pad area. I'll then place a barely perceptable mark on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. We're pretty consistent with where the pad is set up. When the kids come to track the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. What do you all think of this idea? Has someone already done this? --Greg From slcdmw01 at netscape.net Thu Jan 30 14:02:26 2003 From: slcdmw01 at netscape.net (Dan Wright) Date: Fri Mar 19 09:51:13 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <00DE9FBB.3A776E89.00A8C59F@netscape.net> I like the idea. Rather than permanent but "barely perceptible" marks, I think kids are more likely to actually use them if the marks are big and obvious (traffic cones, for example) placed temporarily. A person on the PA system could bring people's attention to the cones and state their distances. We could have two cones 90 degrees apart (as seen from the point-of-view of the rack). A couple guys manning a 100-foot tape could set out these cones quickly enough each time. Another fast accurate method of measuring distances is to count revolutions of a bicycle tire. Gregory Wong wrote: >Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some >kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to >measure angles. ?(Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) ?I also >noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. >Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical >flight. ?Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking >stations and the launch pad. > >I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think >of this idea. ?One of these days, I'll measure some distances out >from the launch pad area. ?I'll then place a barely perceptable mark >on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. ?We're pretty >consistent with where the pad is set up. ?When the kids come to track >the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their >tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. > >What do you all think of this idea? ?Has someone already done this? > >--Greg __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From sax at soundingrocket.com Thu Jan 30 11:38:33 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Fri Mar 19 09:51:13 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: <00DE9FBB.3A776E89.00A8C59F@netscape.net> Message-ID: I noticed that there are some "measuring wheels" for sale on eBay. These are the devices you roll on the ground and read the distance off an odometer looking readout. They aren't too expensive. I'd be willing to buy one and bring it to the BayNAR and LUNAR launches. During setup, I could measure out a few spots and mark them with a traffic cone. For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made given that there are several low power racks at the park. Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. --Greg From Steven.Sawyer at gene.GE.com Thu Jan 30 11:41:18 2003 From: Steven.Sawyer at gene.GE.com (Sawyer, Steven D. (PS, NE)) Date: Fri Mar 19 09:51:13 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <97E769FBF0B6D21197B40008C70D9078051A74A5@casjcx05nege.ne.ge.com> Another alternative is an old-fashioned telephone or intercom. As a spool of wire of a pre-measured length is unwound, the length is automatically made with the intercom connected to each end. For a 2-angle calculation, this quick communication between trackers is imperative to allow altitude calculation. Steve > ---------- > From: Gregory Wong[SMTP:sax@soundingrocket.com] > Reply To: ba-rockets@markspace.vps.fluidhosting.com > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:38 AM > To: ba-rockets@markspace.vps.fluidhosting.com > Subject: RE: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza > > I noticed that there are some "measuring wheels" for sale on eBay. > These are the devices you roll on the ground and read the distance > off an odometer looking readout. They aren't too expensive. I'd > be willing to buy one and bring it to the BayNAR and LUNAR launches. > During setup, I could measure out a few spots and mark them with > a traffic cone. For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made > given that there are several low power racks at the park. Perhaps I could > measure from a central spot among the pads. > > --Greg > > > -- > From ba-rockets. > Visit our home page at http://www.baynar.org > To change your subscription, visit http://www.markspace.com/lists.html > From jhagerty at juno.com Thu Jan 30 21:04:40 2003 From: jhagerty at juno.com (Jack Hagerty) Date: Fri Mar 19 09:51:13 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <20030130.215627.-505149.4.jhagerty@juno.com> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:38:33 -0800 (PST) Gregory Wong writes: > For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made > given that there are several low power racks at the park. > Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. Not necessary. When you use two station tracking, the location of the pads isn't important. Since the second tracker gives you side-to-side information too, the altitude is calculated from the rocket directly to the ground below it, not to the launch pad. I would certainly like to give our gorgeous trackers more use than the once a year (if that!) that they get now. - Jack Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com) ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168 Phone/fax (925) 455-1143 From kriks at pacbell.net Thu Jan 30 22:22:33 2003 From: kriks at pacbell.net (Martin Krikorian) Date: Fri Mar 19 09:51:13 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: <20030130.215627.-505149.4.jhagerty@juno.com> Message-ID: <622BAD72-34E4-11D7-901C-00306546CE7A@pacbell.net> For communication, I can donate some 900 mHz radios, with modems built in, if anyone is interested in figuring out how to use them. They run on 12VDC, and can send tracking readings via a terminal program on a laptop, as well as having a voice handset. Any takers? On Thursday, January 30, 2003, at 09:04 PM, Jack Hagerty wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:38:33 -0800 (PST) Gregory Wong > writes: >> For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made >> given that there are several low power racks at the park. >> Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. > > Not necessary. When you use two station tracking, the location of the > pads isn't important. Since the second tracker gives you side-to-side > information too, the altitude is calculated from the rocket directly to > the ground below it, not to the launch pad. > > I would certainly like to give our gorgeous trackers more use than the > once a year (if that!) that they get now. > > - Jack > > Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com) > ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168 > Phone/fax (925) 455-1143 > -- >> From ba-rockets. > Visit our home page at http://www.baynar.org > To change your subscription, visit http://www.markspace.com/lists.html > From billw at cisco.com Thu Jan 30 22:58:30 2003 From: billw at cisco.com (William Chops Westfield) Date: Fri Mar 19 09:51:13 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:04:40 -0800 -VTY lines stuck in idle state Message-ID: You know, if "the kids" are doing altitude tracking just to find out how high their rockets are going, setting them up with two tracking positions and theodilites or eqivilent, and software to do the analysis, is a fine thing. But if someone is hoping that they'll pick up a little of the math and trig involved, I think they'd be a lot better off sticking with single station tracking (and a known basline is still a good idea. Both the LUNAR and BAYNAR sites have lovely [sic] fixed fixtures like curbs and lampposts. I don't think we need to mark up the pavement at all. All we need is reasonably accurate measurements from a couple of easilly identifiable locations ("this lampost", "this square of sidewalk", "this storm drain") to each possible pad... The distances won't be nice round numbers, but that doesn't matter, does it? BillW From kriks at pacbell.net Thu Jan 30 23:11:24 2003 From: kriks at pacbell.net (Martin Krikorian) Date: Fri Mar 19 09:51:13 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] January launch report Message-ID: <3569D002-34EB-11D7-901C-00306546CE7A@pacbell.net> The January launch was just about perfect - nice weather, and not too busy, but busy enough to keep flying for four hours. Thanks to Tom McLachlan, who hauled the equipment and helped with set-up and teardown. Thanks also to Alan Tran, Dan Wright and Jay Dean, who put in shifts as LCO and RSO, as well as to everyone who helped us pack up at the end of the day. Dan Wright was the winner of the boost glider in our volunteer raffle. The January launches went as follows: 3 - 1/4 A 2 - 1/2 A 23 - A 36 - B 34 - C 8 - D 3 - E 1 - 3 B Cluster 1 - A1/2A 2 stage 2 - BA 2 stage 2 - BB 2 stage 114 launches Not quite a J motor. On the expenses front, we have been helped out by an anonymous donor who pitched in five twenties at the last launch! -Marty Krikorian From sax at soundingrocket.com Wed Jan 29 22:56:12 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Thu Mar 25 23:00:02 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to measure angles. (Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) I also noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical flight. Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking stations and the launch pad. I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think of this idea. One of these days, I'll measure some distances out from the launch pad area. I'll then place a barely perceptable mark on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. We're pretty consistent with where the pad is set up. When the kids come to track the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. What do you all think of this idea? Has someone already done this? --Greg From sax at soundingrocket.com Wed Jan 29 23:17:24 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Thu Mar 25 23:00:02 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to measure angles. (Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) I also noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical flight. Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking stations and the launch pad. I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think of this idea. One of these days, I'll measure some distances out from the launch pad area. I'll then place a barely perceptable mark on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. We're pretty consistent with where the pad is set up. When the kids come to track the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. What do you all think of this idea? Has someone already done this? --Greg From slcdmw01 at netscape.net Thu Jan 30 14:02:26 2003 From: slcdmw01 at netscape.net (Dan Wright) Date: Thu Mar 25 23:00:02 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <00DE9FBB.3A776E89.00A8C59F@netscape.net> I like the idea. Rather than permanent but "barely perceptible" marks, I think kids are more likely to actually use them if the marks are big and obvious (traffic cones, for example) placed temporarily. A person on the PA system could bring people's attention to the cones and state their distances. We could have two cones 90 degrees apart (as seen from the point-of-view of the rack). A couple guys manning a 100-foot tape could set out these cones quickly enough each time. Another fast accurate method of measuring distances is to count revolutions of a bicycle tire. Gregory Wong wrote: >Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some >kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to >measure angles. ?(Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) ?I also >noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. >Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical >flight. ?Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking >stations and the launch pad. > >I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think >of this idea. ?One of these days, I'll measure some distances out >from the launch pad area. ?I'll then place a barely perceptable mark >on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. ?We're pretty >consistent with where the pad is set up. ?When the kids come to track >the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their >tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. > >What do you all think of this idea? ?Has someone already done this? > >--Greg __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From sax at soundingrocket.com Thu Jan 30 11:38:33 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Thu Mar 25 23:00:02 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: <00DE9FBB.3A776E89.00A8C59F@netscape.net> Message-ID: I noticed that there are some "measuring wheels" for sale on eBay. These are the devices you roll on the ground and read the distance off an odometer looking readout. They aren't too expensive. I'd be willing to buy one and bring it to the BayNAR and LUNAR launches. During setup, I could measure out a few spots and mark them with a traffic cone. For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made given that there are several low power racks at the park. Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. --Greg From Steven.Sawyer at gene.GE.com Thu Jan 30 11:41:18 2003 From: Steven.Sawyer at gene.GE.com (Sawyer, Steven D. (PS, NE)) Date: Thu Mar 25 23:00:02 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <97E769FBF0B6D21197B40008C70D9078051A74A5@casjcx05nege.ne.ge.com> Another alternative is an old-fashioned telephone or intercom. As a spool of wire of a pre-measured length is unwound, the length is automatically made with the intercom connected to each end. For a 2-angle calculation, this quick communication between trackers is imperative to allow altitude calculation. Steve > ---------- > From: Gregory Wong[SMTP:sax@soundingrocket.com] > Reply To: ba-rockets@markspace.vps.fluidhosting.com > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:38 AM > To: ba-rockets@markspace.vps.fluidhosting.com > Subject: RE: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza > > I noticed that there are some "measuring wheels" for sale on eBay. > These are the devices you roll on the ground and read the distance > off an odometer looking readout. They aren't too expensive. I'd > be willing to buy one and bring it to the BayNAR and LUNAR launches. > During setup, I could measure out a few spots and mark them with > a traffic cone. For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made > given that there are several low power racks at the park. Perhaps I could > measure from a central spot among the pads. > > --Greg > > > -- > From ba-rockets. > Visit our home page at http://www.baynar.org > To change your subscription, visit http://www.markspace.com/lists.html > From jhagerty at juno.com Thu Jan 30 21:04:40 2003 From: jhagerty at juno.com (Jack Hagerty) Date: Thu Mar 25 23:00:02 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <20030130.215627.-505149.4.jhagerty@juno.com> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:38:33 -0800 (PST) Gregory Wong writes: > For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made > given that there are several low power racks at the park. > Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. Not necessary. When you use two station tracking, the location of the pads isn't important. Since the second tracker gives you side-to-side information too, the altitude is calculated from the rocket directly to the ground below it, not to the launch pad. I would certainly like to give our gorgeous trackers more use than the once a year (if that!) that they get now. - Jack Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com) ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168 Phone/fax (925) 455-1143 From kriks at pacbell.net Thu Jan 30 22:22:33 2003 From: kriks at pacbell.net (Martin Krikorian) Date: Thu Mar 25 23:00:02 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: <20030130.215627.-505149.4.jhagerty@juno.com> Message-ID: <622BAD72-34E4-11D7-901C-00306546CE7A@pacbell.net> For communication, I can donate some 900 mHz radios, with modems built in, if anyone is interested in figuring out how to use them. They run on 12VDC, and can send tracking readings via a terminal program on a laptop, as well as having a voice handset. Any takers? On Thursday, January 30, 2003, at 09:04 PM, Jack Hagerty wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:38:33 -0800 (PST) Gregory Wong > writes: >> For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made >> given that there are several low power racks at the park. >> Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. > > Not necessary. When you use two station tracking, the location of the > pads isn't important. Since the second tracker gives you side-to-side > information too, the altitude is calculated from the rocket directly to > the ground below it, not to the launch pad. > > I would certainly like to give our gorgeous trackers more use than the > once a year (if that!) that they get now. > > - Jack > > Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com) > ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168 > Phone/fax (925) 455-1143 > -- >> From ba-rockets. > Visit our home page at http://www.baynar.org > To change your subscription, visit http://www.markspace.com/lists.html > From billw at cisco.com Thu Jan 30 22:58:30 2003 From: billw at cisco.com (William Chops Westfield) Date: Thu Mar 25 23:00:02 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:04:40 -0800 -VTY lines stuck in idle state Message-ID: You know, if "the kids" are doing altitude tracking just to find out how high their rockets are going, setting them up with two tracking positions and theodilites or eqivilent, and software to do the analysis, is a fine thing. But if someone is hoping that they'll pick up a little of the math and trig involved, I think they'd be a lot better off sticking with single station tracking (and a known basline is still a good idea. Both the LUNAR and BAYNAR sites have lovely [sic] fixed fixtures like curbs and lampposts. I don't think we need to mark up the pavement at all. All we need is reasonably accurate measurements from a couple of easilly identifiable locations ("this lampost", "this square of sidewalk", "this storm drain") to each possible pad... The distances won't be nice round numbers, but that doesn't matter, does it? BillW From kriks at pacbell.net Thu Jan 30 23:11:24 2003 From: kriks at pacbell.net (Martin Krikorian) Date: Thu Mar 25 23:00:02 2004 Subject: [BA-Rockets] January launch report Message-ID: <3569D002-34EB-11D7-901C-00306546CE7A@pacbell.net> The January launch was just about perfect - nice weather, and not too busy, but busy enough to keep flying for four hours. Thanks to Tom McLachlan, who hauled the equipment and helped with set-up and teardown. Thanks also to Alan Tran, Dan Wright and Jay Dean, who put in shifts as LCO and RSO, as well as to everyone who helped us pack up at the end of the day. Dan Wright was the winner of the boost glider in our volunteer raffle. The January launches went as follows: 3 - 1/4 A 2 - 1/2 A 23 - A 36 - B 34 - C 8 - D 3 - E 1 - 3 B Cluster 1 - A1/2A 2 stage 2 - BA 2 stage 2 - BB 2 stage 114 launches Not quite a J motor. On the expenses front, we have been helped out by an anonymous donor who pitched in five twenties at the last launch! -Marty Krikorian From sax at soundingrocket.com Wed Jan 29 22:56:12 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Fri May 6 12:01:48 2005 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to measure angles. (Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) I also noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical flight. Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking stations and the launch pad. I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think of this idea. One of these days, I'll measure some distances out from the launch pad area. I'll then place a barely perceptable mark on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. We're pretty consistent with where the pad is set up. When the kids come to track the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. What do you all think of this idea? Has someone already done this? --Greg From sax at soundingrocket.com Wed Jan 29 23:17:24 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Fri May 6 12:01:51 2005 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to measure angles. (Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) I also noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical flight. Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking stations and the launch pad. I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think of this idea. One of these days, I'll measure some distances out from the launch pad area. I'll then place a barely perceptable mark on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. We're pretty consistent with where the pad is set up. When the kids come to track the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. What do you all think of this idea? Has someone already done this? --Greg From slcdmw01 at netscape.net Thu Jan 30 14:02:26 2003 From: slcdmw01 at netscape.net (Dan Wright) Date: Fri May 6 12:01:51 2005 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <00DE9FBB.3A776E89.00A8C59F@netscape.net> I like the idea. Rather than permanent but "barely perceptible" marks, I think kids are more likely to actually use them if the marks are big and obvious (traffic cones, for example) placed temporarily. A person on the PA system could bring people's attention to the cones and state their distances. We could have two cones 90 degrees apart (as seen from the point-of-view of the rack). A couple guys manning a 100-foot tape could set out these cones quickly enough each time. Another fast accurate method of measuring distances is to count revolutions of a bicycle tire. Gregory Wong wrote: >Occasionally at the BayNAR launches at DeAnza College, I've noticed some >kids measuring the altitude of their rockets using those devices used to >measure angles. ?(Sorry, can't think of the technical term.) ?I also >noticed some kids are just too close to get an accurate reading. >Ideally, you should have 2 tracking stations to account for non-vertical >flight. ?Of course, you need an accurate distance between the tracking >stations and the launch pad. > >I'd like propose something and see what other BayNAR members think >of this idea. ?One of these days, I'll measure some distances out >from the launch pad area. ?I'll then place a barely perceptable mark >on the ground or make a note of a nearby landmark. ?We're pretty >consistent with where the pad is set up. ?When the kids come to track >the altitude, we can point out the spot(s) where they should set up their >tracking station(s) and tell them how far away it is. > >What do you all think of this idea? ?Has someone already done this? > >--Greg __________________________________________________________________ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From sax at soundingrocket.com Thu Jan 30 11:38:33 2003 From: sax at soundingrocket.com (Gregory Wong) Date: Fri May 6 12:01:51 2005 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: <00DE9FBB.3A776E89.00A8C59F@netscape.net> Message-ID: I noticed that there are some "measuring wheels" for sale on eBay. These are the devices you roll on the ground and read the distance off an odometer looking readout. They aren't too expensive. I'd be willing to buy one and bring it to the BayNAR and LUNAR launches. During setup, I could measure out a few spots and mark them with a traffic cone. For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made given that there are several low power racks at the park. Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. --Greg From Steven.Sawyer at gene.GE.com Thu Jan 30 11:41:18 2003 From: Steven.Sawyer at gene.GE.com (Sawyer, Steven D. (PS, NE)) Date: Fri May 6 12:01:51 2005 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <97E769FBF0B6D21197B40008C70D9078051A74A5@casjcx05nege.ne.ge.com> Another alternative is an old-fashioned telephone or intercom. As a spool of wire of a pre-measured length is unwound, the length is automatically made with the intercom connected to each end. For a 2-angle calculation, this quick communication between trackers is imperative to allow altitude calculation. Steve > ---------- > From: Gregory Wong[SMTP:sax@soundingrocket.com] > Reply To: ba-rockets@markspace.vps.fluidhosting.com > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:38 AM > To: ba-rockets@markspace.vps.fluidhosting.com > Subject: RE: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza > > I noticed that there are some "measuring wheels" for sale on eBay. > These are the devices you roll on the ground and read the distance > off an odometer looking readout. They aren't too expensive. I'd > be willing to buy one and bring it to the BayNAR and LUNAR launches. > During setup, I could measure out a few spots and mark them with > a traffic cone. For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made > given that there are several low power racks at the park. Perhaps I could > measure from a central spot among the pads. > > --Greg > > > -- > From ba-rockets. > Visit our home page at http://www.baynar.org > To change your subscription, visit http://www.markspace.com/lists.html > From jhagerty at juno.com Thu Jan 30 21:04:40 2003 From: jhagerty at juno.com (Jack Hagerty) Date: Fri May 6 12:01:51 2005 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza Message-ID: <20030130.215627.-505149.4.jhagerty@juno.com> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:38:33 -0800 (PST) Gregory Wong writes: > For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made > given that there are several low power racks at the park. > Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. Not necessary. When you use two station tracking, the location of the pads isn't important. Since the second tracker gives you side-to-side information too, the altitude is calculated from the rocket directly to the ground below it, not to the launch pad. I would certainly like to give our gorgeous trackers more use than the once a year (if that!) that they get now. - Jack Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com) ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168 Phone/fax (925) 455-1143 From kriks at pacbell.net Thu Jan 30 22:22:33 2003 From: kriks at pacbell.net (Martin Krikorian) Date: Fri May 6 12:01:51 2005 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: <20030130.215627.-505149.4.jhagerty@juno.com> Message-ID: <622BAD72-34E4-11D7-901C-00306546CE7A@pacbell.net> For communication, I can donate some 900 mHz radios, with modems built in, if anyone is interested in figuring out how to use them. They run on 12VDC, and can send tracking readings via a terminal program on a laptop, as well as having a voice handset. Any takers? On Thursday, January 30, 2003, at 09:04 PM, Jack Hagerty wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:38:33 -0800 (PST) Gregory Wong > writes: >> For LUNAR, some compromise will have to be made >> given that there are several low power racks at the park. >> Perhaps I could measure from a central spot among the pads. > > Not necessary. When you use two station tracking, the location of the > pads isn't important. Since the second tracker gives you side-to-side > information too, the altitude is calculated from the rocket directly to > the ground below it, not to the launch pad. > > I would certainly like to give our gorgeous trackers more use than the > once a year (if that!) that they get now. > > - Jack > > Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com) > ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168 > Phone/fax (925) 455-1143 > -- >> From ba-rockets. > Visit our home page at http://www.baynar.org > To change your subscription, visit http://www.markspace.com/lists.html > From billw at cisco.com Thu Jan 30 22:58:30 2003 From: billw at cisco.com (William Chops Westfield) Date: Fri May 6 12:01:51 2005 Subject: [BA-Rockets] altitude tracking at DeAnza In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:04:40 -0800 -VTY lines stuck in idle state Message-ID: You know, if "the kids" are doing altitude tracking just to find out how high their rockets are going, setting them up with two tracking positions and theodilites or eqivilent, and software to do the analysis, is a fine thing. But if someone is hoping that they'll pick up a little of the math and trig involved, I think they'd be a lot better off sticking with single station tracking (and a known basline is still a good idea. Both the LUNAR and BAYNAR sites have lovely [sic] fixed fixtures like curbs and lampposts. I don't think we need to mark up the pavement at all. All we need is reasonably accurate measurements from a couple of easilly identifiable locations ("this lampost", "this square of sidewalk", "this storm drain") to each possible pad... The distances won't be nice round numbers, but that doesn't matter, does it? BillW From kriks at pacbell.net Thu Jan 30 23:11:24 2003 From: kriks at pacbell.net (Martin Krikorian) Date: Fri May 6 12:01:51 2005 Subject: [BA-Rockets] January launch report Message-ID: <3569D002-34EB-11D7-901C-00306546CE7A@pacbell.net> The January launch was just about perfect - nice weather, and not too busy, but busy enough to keep flying for four hours. Thanks to Tom McLachlan, who hauled the equipment and helped with set-up and teardown. Thanks also to Alan Tran, Dan Wright and Jay Dean, who put in shifts as LCO and RSO, as well as to everyone who helped us pack up at the end of the day. Dan Wright was the winner of the boost glider in our volunteer raffle. The January launches went as follows: 3 - 1/4 A 2 - 1/2 A 23 - A 36 - B 34 - C 8 - D 3 - E 1 - 3 B Cluster 1 - A1/2A 2 stage 2 - BA 2 stage 2 - BB 2 stage 114 launches Not quite a J motor. On the expenses front, we have been helped out by an anonymous donor who pitched in five twenties at the last launch! -Marty Krikorian